BANKS isn’t very analytical about this stuff. She’s a conduit and the music flows through her.
We’re catching up over Zoom ahead of the release of her next studio album, Off With Her Head. Knockout singles have included the fantastic “I Hate Your Ex-Girlfriend,” featuring PAPER cover star and recent Grammy winner Doechii. She’s also coming off the 10th anniversary of her debut Goddess, which pierced Billboard charts and became an instant classic amongst my generational cohort. I ask her about the lessons she learned, about herself or the music, bookending the anniversary with new (to the rest of us) material for her latest project. “I think my relationship with it… I don’t think it’s changed. It’s me. It’s part of me. Every album I make is like a child of mine,” she says.
For BANKS, “With music and with writing, for me, it’s so not a heady process. It’s natural, like, I just feel like I’m a medium. It’s not really an analytical thing, where I can say, ‘Oh, it affected it this way.’ I grow and my music grows.”
Much of the new album consists of material she started working on in 2013, with collaborators like Sampha and Lil Silva. On how it feels to reconnect, a decade later, on Goddess’ “little sibling” of an album: “I think Goddess… My connection with the people I made it with was so intense, and it was at the beginning of all our careers, and we all needed to do our own thing and develop as our own artists. Coming back to each other after that, and all having grown as artists, it was such a joy.”
Released last Friday, BANKS says there’s “so many” songs she’s excited for fans to dig into. “‘Stay,’ ‘Meddle In the Mold’ is a fucking beast. I don’t know! It’s hard. I hate having to choose singles. Choosing the focus track when it comes out. The whole album is so special, the direction is such a fun vibe. ‘Make It Up’ with Sampha, ‘Guillotine,’ the whole thing!”
How long have you been putting Off With Her Head together now?
Honestly, since 2013.
Walk me through that experience, going back 12 years.
I started a few of them that long ago. This feels like it’s another first album to me, because of that. Some songs were started and finished within the year, some of them started 10 years ago.
What was it like to go back to work you started that long ago? Did it feel like there’s been so many versions of yourself since, did it feel like coming back to yourself?
It’s a mix, because yes, I’ve grown so much, but it’s funny. My connection to music and the certain, specific melodies I’m drawn to, are always the same. The same way I felt about those songs when I started them is the same way I felt about them when I rediscovered them and finished them. It’s been a really beautiful thing.
I was listening to the new album, and I can definitely hear pieces of Goddess on it, which you’ve said is the little sibling to this album. How did you rediscover the work, a notebook, a hard drive?
There are certain songs I always knew I wanted to finish, and then I made a few songs, like “Stay” and “Delulu” and it reminded me of these other songs. For some reason, they fit together. It was a natural thing, it wasn’t really thought out. And coming back together with Lil Silva was just the best. I’m so happy that we’re back in the mode.
You talk about going back to work with producers that you worked with on Goddess. How did that feel?
My connection with the people I made Goddess with was so intense, and it was at the beginning of all our careers, and we all needed to do our own thing and develop as our own artists. Coming back to each other after that, and all having grown as artists, it was such a joy. And it’s really fun finding a new dynamic and a new vibe in the studio, and it felt right. I don’t know, sometimes things feel right. There’s not really a reason I can put to it. I mean, the song “Move” is a song I started with Silva a few years ago, and we didn’t finish it. I don’t love working remotely. I like being in the room with someone. So I made my own version of it, and I texted him, and I was like, “Hey, I’m gonna put this on the album.” And he was like, our version is better. And so I was like, “Okay, fine, let’s just finish it remotely,” because he’s in the UK. And then it all happened from there.
Do you feel like your relationship to Goddess, going back now, has changed at all over the years? Did you discover something new about what you made with it?
I didn’t discover anything new. A lot of the time when artists release their first albums, that’s how people fall in love with them. So people have a deep attachment to that album. And so a lot of artists, it feels as if my other work is just as important, just as special. And that’s why maybe you get that vibe of artists shunning their old work, because sometimes it can be frustrating when people want you to stay the way you were in the past, and that they fall in love with you one way, and they don’t want you to grow. I felt that before for sure, because Goddess had such an impact. It affected a lot of people. I’m so grateful for that, but it was a celebration, this 10 year anniversary with it, and I think my relationship with it… No, I don’t think it’s changed. It’s me. It’s part of me. Every album I make is like a child of mine. And definitely now, like when I was re-singing those songs, it felt like, it’s the difference of remembering something painful and going through something painful. It’s like, damn, I went through that and I got through it. But having those same collaborators on this album, it feels like a rebirth, and I’m really excited about it.
Speaking of rebirths, I was reading an interview that you did during your last album cycle where you talked about taking the reins on Serpentina and co-producing that album. How did that confidence and that experience of taking the reins on that album translate to making this new album?
I don’t know. Again, it’s funny, because with music and with writing, for me, it’s so not a heady process. It’s natural, like, I feel like I’m a medium. It’s not really like an analytical thing, where I can say, like, oh, it affected it this way. I grow and my music grows. Definitely, production wise, now I’ve got a hand in everything, always, and I always really did. I just didn’t know how to engineer. So now I do. Every artist should learn how to do that, because it’s like, you’ve got only one arm if you don’t know how…
So much of your writing and lyricism feels, I don’t want to say like a diary entry, because that feels infantile, but very much drawing from your own personal experience.
It is, though; it’s like my personal diary entries!
On this new album, were there specific experiences you drew from when making it, or a time in your life?
This album is really cool in that it draws from multiple part times in my life. “Love Is Unkind” is about a really toxic relationship that I was in, probably my most abusive relationship I’ve been in, and “Stay” is about my most wonderful relationship, and the one I’m currently in. What’s cool about this album is it’s not from one time, so it really represents a body of experiences. It’s not just one facet. It takes you through the growth of me as a human, as a person.
Does music become a way to process those experiences, in the aftermath?
Music, for me, it’s got no time limit, because it’s either a fortune teller or it’s a way to process the past. I started “Make It Up” a decade ago with Sampha and Silva, and we wrote the hook in 2013. We hadn’t worked together in so long. And then we came back together, and the chorus, it’s about what happened and coming back together. So it feels like a fortune teller in that way, where sometimes when you write something, you don’t even know why it came out, but it’s like it came out because of something that’s gonna happen in the future.
So often you hear about the way music affects its listeners. You hear a song, and you associate it with a memory or a time in your life. I don’t often hear that artists think of their own songs like that too, these little time capsules of your life.
They are time capsules for me. They’re much more accurate than a photo or video.
Because it’s coming directly from your soul, your heart.
Exactly. It’s not like a picture of your outsides. It’s your guts. Music, for me, is like my insides.
More on the visuals and fashion aesthetics of the album, I love the cover, and the mask and big hair, which is so glam and gab to me. Walk me through how you though the visuals of this new era you’re entering.
I’m in such a free-flowing, creative place. I wanted to have fun with it. I wanted to be fearless and get out of my head, which is what Off With Her Head means. It’s getting out of your head and into your body and into your joy and into the present moment. I had a lot of fun with it. You know, “I Hate Your Ex-Girlfriend,” that video with Doechii and Charlie Denis directing, it was so much fun to make. I’m just having a lot of fun.
The video continues one of my favorite pop music traditions, of women on a pop song with the bed choreography. I was thinking of Madonna and Britney in “Me Against the Music.”
That was definitely one of the inspirations for the video.
Do you have a favorite music video, now that I’m thinking about it.
I grew up with TRL, so it’s like, for sure, I do. I mean, any Missy Elliott video, Gwen Stefani used to kill, she’s an icon. And, yeah, I mean, every Britney video was always iconic. Fiona Apple, “Never is a Promise.” It’s one of my favorite songs, and that video is incredible, stunning, and her “Fast As You Can” video too, where she’s like, going backwards in time while singing. It’s crazy. I mean, I love music videos. It’s kind of a shame that they aren’t as important these days, like that now it’s all about short form content and quantity over quality. People don’t really watch music videos how they used to, and so labels and people in the business don’t really want to focus on it as much, which I totally get because they’re really expensive. But for certain songs, it’s important and very much worth it.
We’re the same age, and we come from a time when our perception of artists were shaped by music videos they were putting out. It’s interesting to think that newer generations don’t really have the same relationship to their favorite artists that we did.
There’s a lot less mystery. It’s very much like, what did you eat for breakfast today? Sometimes, I hate to say this, but sometimes I feel like artists feel like monkeys now, dancing, like, make a skit. Do a funny TikTok, do a dance. Like, do a comedy routine. Sneeze and go viral, so maybe you’ll discover your music, like it’s so gross.
I’ve read so much about your influences, and who you were inspired by when first making music, but who are the artists that you’re listening to now? What is on your playlist, so to speak?
Let me open my Spotify.
I love this, love knowing about people’s Spotify histories.
Fridayy, his song “When It Comes to You,” I love that. I really love Clairo, I love that song “Sexy For Someone.” Sasha Keable, crazy voice. Oklou, Sampha, obviously. Khruanbin. So many. There’s so much talent in the world.
What, if anything, are you really excited for people to hear from this album?
So many. “Stay” and “Metal In the Mold” is a fucking beast. I don’t know! It’s hard. I hate having to choose singles… choosing the focus track when it comes out. The whole album is so special, the direction is such a fun vibe. “Make It Up” with Sampha, “Guillotine,” the whole thing!
[This album] takes you through the growth of me as a human, as a person.
Photography: Charlie Denis